Pre-Planning+Email+Notes!

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the actual project - and how we should all > organize ourselves, but it seems like a good way to do all this is through > a Wiki. So, we might want to think about moving this discussion right to > the wiki - using hyperlinks to add what we find. We can create the actual > document for students using Google Docs. (collaboratively) when we know > what we want it to look like. > If you all don't mind, I'll copy and paste all the emails over to our Wiki > for us - that's so much easier than trying to keep track of all these > emails! :) > > Kate Meyer

- [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago -  [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago

>>Hi all, >>Nancy, thanks so much for getting this rolling. >> >>Dale, I too like your do's and don't's idea because it sounds like >>something that we could turn right around and share with our students. >>I need to do some reading and then I'll be a lot better informed about >>how we should proceed. >> >>Phone/email/skype (though I've never tried skyping) all work for me.Â We >>should think about how we can split up the work in a way that is >>efficient for all of us. >> >>Thanks again, and I hope you all had great 3 day weekends. >>Hannah

- [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago -  [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago

>>Hi Dale, >> >>Nice to hear from you. The Do's and Dont's of copyrighting for students >>is pretty applicable to us. There is a song on one of the clips on the >>site that Ken gave us that shows just how murky it can be when using >>material that is for "expanding" and "reconstituting" purposes. >>Basically, if you take a piece of anyone's material and you can prove >>that your purpose in using it was for the "greater good" then you are not >>liable (I think). That makes it pretty broad. I will continue reading >>about the subject and get back to you guys on it.

- [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago -  [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago

>>Nancy, >> >>Thank you so much for initiating the email. I thought I would use today >>to get going on this and >>I realize I am not quite sure where to begin. Since I'm clueless I >>thought I'd throw an idea or two out there; here goes: >> >>How about creating some student friendly site to explain the Do's and >>Don'ts of Copyright. (I think about this because last year I had a student take an entire clip >>from Ice Age and use it for his Public Service Announcement. Now, after perusing some of this >>material, I'm still unclear of what's acceptable. We might be able to use >>this as an example in our own wiki?) Or is this strictly about taking >>Ken's reading suggestions and responding? Â Perhaps "Copyright for >>Dummies"? I like your idea about tackling separate subjects. Email, >>phone or Skype are fine for me. I'm leaving tomorrow, but I'll be back >>on >>Monday. >> >>Thanks again. >> >>Dale

- [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago -  [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago

>>Â Hi everyone, It's Saturday and it's our week off, so I hope I'm not bothering >>> anyone. I thought it would be a good time to get a jump start and touch base with >>> you guys regarding our upcoming collaborative, wiki project. Â This was a >>good way to get all of your emails into one place at once. Â Here are my questions for the group: >>> >>> 1. Any ideas of how to collaborate and approach this project? We >>could >>> break down aspects of the subject and each one take a different piece; >>> just >>> an idea. What the pieces would be, I don't know. I have started >>some of >>> the reading and there is a lot to know. >>> 2. Â What is the best way for us to communicate as a group; email, chat >>> room, >>> Skype (my camera is disabled, but I can probably get it turned on by >>> administrator), phone, meet in person? >>> >>> Just thought I would get the ball rolling a bit on communication. >>> Hope >>> you >>> are enjoying your week off.

- [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago -  [|KateMeyer] 60 minutes ago

Hi, All,

Nancy Here. I do think it is a good idea for us to have our discussion directly on here. I would also recommend that everyone listen to this copy right song that I came across on Ken's suggested website []. I looked at Copy Cat's page and they are also suggesting people view this video. http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/documentary-film-program/film/a-fair-y-use-tale ﻿ Hi Everybody,

Dale here, and thanks again, Nancy. Yes, a wicked good video. I'm beginning to understand some of this, but I'll have to watch it again and keep reading. I am also attaching a public service announcement a student made last year. Yes, it is acknowledged/cited at the end, but I am bothered that he is using someone else's work to convey his message, and maybe this doesn't apply at all (?). If this piece doesn't help, I am wondering if anyone has any work that we can use as a starting point to begin explaining Fair Use. (caps?) The scenario I am thinking of would be public service announcements. Actually, now that I am thinking of it, how about 3 brief scenarios that we encounter in class: using images, creating keynote presentation, imovie or psa's? PS: I am slightly confused: If I'm not editing the previous text, am I creating a new page? Okay, hang on: I have to contact Ken on how to upload this PSA to the wiki. So stay tuned.

Hello All,

Ken informed me that I can add a link here to our [|Open Forum] to view the student PSA. Let me know if you have any reactions.

Thanks.

Dale Hi everyone, Thanks for the PSA, Dale. It makes me think of a really similar situation that came up last year when some of my students voiced-over a clip from Lord of the Rings in order to do a Great Gatsby project. It was really creative, but now I am wondering whether it violated Fair Use law. We could use--I think my students would be fine with it--if you don't want to use the one you posted, but the one you posted seems like a perfect example of the kinds of things our students do all the time. I like the idea of addressing a few different scenarios that come up in our classes. What do others think? Happy (windy!) Saturday. Hannah Dale, I watched the P.S.A. and based on what I'm learning about copyright and fair use, it does beg the question of whether it is okay to do or not. I mention below that I agree with the scenarios idea. I also am posting Deb Carver's email. I created a scenarios page which I linked to our planning, cover page. If people could just get on there and each post a scenario they are thinking about and then we could discuss them, that would be great. Do we discuss right on the page or here, is the question? I added a scenario I could use. I don't know if it's too simple. -Nancy

On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Deb Carver  wrote: I don't know about any of you, but this collaborative work through digital communication is very new to me!!! How do we want to go about this?

On Sunday I plan on: 1. Looking over a couple of books on copyright and fair use my librarian had. 2. Looking over some links I found regarding copyright and fair use. 3. Brainstorming the issues regarding these topics that might (or have) come up in my classroom

Maybe we need to decide on several links that we can post onto our Wiki. Those links could be videos, sites, pdf's, etc. that would be useful to our students. Maybe we could all find and suggest at least 2 links to each other and see if we want to add those to our wiki?

I think someone suggested focusing on a handful of common situations that students would face and what copyright/fair use rules they need to know?? If that is what we want to do, then maybe we could each brainstorm two common student assignments/situations/ > scenarios that we want to address on > our Wiki? One of the books that the librarian gave me does a nice job > with this idea. > > What is the best way to collaborate with eachother? Email? Online chat > using moodle? Other? > > I am starting to stress a bit about the direction we need to go in. I am > comforted some by the fact that it seems the other two groups don't have a > wiki together yet. Let me know soon what you all think and the direction > you think we should take first. > :) Thanks, Debbie

Hi Deb,

I'm not sure if you have clicked on the Wiki page but I think the decision here is to post all of our commentary directly on the wiki and we can communicate that way. Dale has done a nice job of posting everything on there and I am going to copy and paste this conversation in at the end.

As far as how to go about this with scenarios from our classroom. I like the idea. I am still reading and trying to get a handle on copyright and fair use. My understanding thus far is that it is acceptable to use an amount of copyrighted material for certain purposes such as educational where the material is for "the greater good" and/or one is reconstituting the material. It's a bit hazy, but I do like the idea that each of us takes a scenario. We could do 5 different ones. I am going to create a spot at the top of the wiki page for each of us to choose and explain a scenario from our classrooms. If you like this idea.

I have one in mind but it might be too simple or not take on enough regarding fair use and copyright law.

NOTE: I did it. I created page for us to each add a scenario from our classroom we would think about using. I posted it as a link on our cover page,so just click on it and go to the page and add a thing you might use. I'm wondering if we should each take a different aspect of media?

Hi all, I am going to order Copyright Clarity, by Renee Hobbs, from the library tomorrow. Ken recommends it a few times in his "Introduction to Copyrighting" (which is itself very clear and helpful). Between that and the fact that it is advertised as "slim and jargon free," I'm putting my eggs in that basket. I'll let you know how it is. Nancy, thanks so much for getting the scenarios page up and running. I have a question about the scenarios (and on a larger scale, our project): are we imagining that this is a guide for teachers, or students, or both? Hannah Hi All, Back from Parents' weekend and lacking energy. I plan to attack more of this tomorrow. Thanks Nancy for the scenarios page. I'm going to throw something on there and you all can nix/delete it or whatever. It may be too similar to Ken's previous scenarios. Please add some ideas. Goodness, that copyright video using the Disney clips was perfect. I love how it mocks Disney. Dale

Sunday evening Hello, I wrote up a little blurb about what Copyright is onto a google Doc document. I added each of you to it (I hope it sent ok). I was thinking that on the first page of Copy Kings we should have a bit about what copyright and fair use means. I also posted some interesting links that I found. Feel free to edit, add, or take away. That book seems interesting. I have seen it referenced a few times in different sites. I guess our wiki could be a linking spot for teachers and students (or anyone) interested in the topic. At least that is the way it is turning out. Thanks, Debbie P.S. here is a link to the google doc :) [|Introduction to Copyright and Fair Use] Deb, This is incredibly helpful and useful (redundant?). You did a lot of work on it and I think we should use it as our first page and people can add to it, and/or change/add formatting (I know Dale is particularly good with this). We could decide that we want our wiki to be for teachers and students. It doesn't seem like we have chosen a route yet. I know my scenario is more for teachers and Dale's is more for students. We could use what you have. At the end, we could have a scenarios type test with the answers embedded in links or scrap the scenarios all together. What do you guys think?

Hi, I was just thinking we need to start with a brief introduction, so we are all on the same page. And I am also behind on my research. Anyone know what the difference is between plagiarism and copyright infringement? Thanks again, Debbie. Dale

Deb, and all others,

I added to the introduction you started on Google Docs. I wrote in the "Fair Use" section. I understand three of the principals of "fair use" but there's a fourth one I will go in and write when I'm clearer on it. Please read over what I wrote and see if you agree and if there is something you want to add (like what the heck that fourth principle of fair use is). Kate, I like your cartoon you put on our page. I think it would be great to include something like it at the beginning of the introduction page. I can't figure out if it's you or Dale who has all the technical prowess here. Dale, I don't know the difference between plagiarism and infringement, but I will try and find out. That's all for now.

Hello, In my H.S. there is a teacher who is a "go-to" guy about fair use. He was an english teacher and now does the media classes (broadcasting, film, etc.). I talked to him today and he said he just did a workshop on Friday somewhere (I'll find out more) regarding fair use in the classroom. We are going to meet tomorrow during our common study hall duty. I will ask him about the questions some of you had. Plagiarism and copyright infringement sound like two different ways to describe similar actions. I will ask him if we could link to any of his stuff and run it by each of you first. I knew he dealt with this issue because of his classes, but didn't know he presents at conferences about it!!!! Cool! Good add-on about Fair Use! I just put on some websites there. If you think there are too many or if they are not helpful please edit. If you have some to add, I would like to check them out. Maybe our page could be for students and educators. If we do a basic intro. and a description of copyright/fair use, links for students and educators to learn more, AND our scenarios, we could help both populations. Also, the teacher in my school said he has a bunch of links to places students and teachers can get items to use that are copyright ok for use (not the technical term). :)

P.S. It was @! cold at my daughter's soccer game after school. It will be even more #$ cold tomorrow night at my son's game. I am ready with hats, gloves, "long-johns", winter coats and boots for tomorrow however!!!!! :) Rich is the ref. for the young kids games. The coach for the other team got a bit mouthy and Rich dealt with it with grace! :) He really did! Nice job. I mean, come on coach! It's a game for grades 3-5!! Good night and stay warm! Debbie :)

Hi all -

I apologize for being "absent" from the group. I was dealing with a family situation that is now under control!

I like the idea of all the scenarios - but I do think we should target teachers OR students (not both). OR, if we were dying to do both, create seperate pages. (Which I now need to figure out how to do - looks great!)

It might also be neat to hyperlink each choice with a link to a rule/law about the question. I'll see if I can do one over on the other page that makes sense.

I'm about to go view the google document - but I do have a request - instead of using another place to communicate on top of this one, can we move it to this wiki? I have so much going on for this class and my own class online, that I'm starting to lose things.

I'm going to be around MUCH more this week - I'm ready to go, go, go!

Kate

Hi,

I love getting compliments when I don't deserve them. Nancy or Debbie, I think it's Kate you want to praise for doing all the previous work. She persuaded us to communicate via the wiki.

Regarding the assignment: I like Kate's idea to hyperlink each choice with a link to a rule/law that pertains to the question. So someone make an executive decision: students or teachers. I prefer stoodents, but I am very flexible.

On another note: I am overwhelmed at how much information there is regarding copyright, etc., and it feels like we are beating a dead horse. Maybe we should have created a rap.

More soon?

Dale

Tuesday night Hi all, Deb, thanks for creating the googledoc explanation. It's a great resource for us to include. I am currently waiting on the book Copyright Clarity, which I ordered on Amazon. (No dice with interlibrary loan; it's so new that no libraries in the state have it yet.) I'm looking forward to having one book that I can sink my teeth into--maybe it's a vestige of the 'old school' research that I did as a student, but I prefer to research this way. Unfortunately, texts made out of real paper can't be linked to. I guess I'll just use the book for personal reference and then find websites to link to that support the same ideas.

In the meantime, I'll try to think up a scenario. Like Dale, I think I'd prefer to address this site to students, but as someone mentioned, we could always have a teacher resource page and a student resource page. Hannah

Wed night Hello, I like the idea of a scenario and linking to the answer. I like the idea of a online quiz. :) Maybe out starting page could be the intro to definitions of Copyright & FairUse. Then we could set up the idea of students reading through a few scenarios and taking the quiz. We could have a separate page for links and other information and include some links for educators. I am fine with focusing on students as the audience and the scenarios should match what students may encounter. Maybe we could each create a scenario and an answer with a link?

I am with you Hannah about reading a book and 'old school" research. :) I would like to check out that book too! I have seen it reference quite a bit. Debbie

Hello again! I just added some of the things from our google docs to the wiki. I also added a link for students regarding plagiarism vs. copyright. Maybe that could help us as well regarding what the "differences" are. Please feel free to edit/add to any of it. Thanks, Debbie

Hi Guys,

I went in and added more to my teacher scenario before I read all of your notes. I guess I agree that a student scenario makes more sense. I am going to think them over and come up with them. I might even be able to rework my teacher scenario with a kid buying and showing the video to a group as a fund raiser type situation. I want to apologize in advance that I am going to my sister's wedding in San Diego this weekend. I plan on doing some work on the plane, but Saturday-Monday you might not hear much from me. I get back on the plane Tuesday morning. I will try to do more research and get a complete scenario with a link to a rule written on our scenario page on Friday as I travel. I hope this works for all.

Hannah, I read over some, but not all of //Copyright Clarity.// I couldn't find the exact wording you are talking about I am taking your word for it on this one. I find it fascinating, because our own librarian has told me that there are rules around showing a private copy of a video, unless I misunderstood her because I know she has studied copyright law and fair use. I am emailing this conversation, the link and the scenario to her to further clarify.
 * Cut from the end of Scenario 1.

Hi there. I thought I was linking to page 23, but every time I link, it ends up on page 27! Too bad. Anyway, if you click on [|Copyright Clarity] and then go backwards to pg. 23, that's where you'll find the information about the Copyright Act. And yes, it's totally confusing how much conflicting information there is out there. I will be curious to hear what the librarian says about it! -Hannah

//I don't think that the answer is D, unless I am misunderstanding the scenario. I finally got Copyright Clarity by Renee Hobbs in the mail, and she shares that in Section 110 of the Copyright Act of '76, educators can use "lawfully made" copies of copyrighted materials in the classroom. This includes school or privately purchased DVD's or rental DVD's. -Hannah//

Hello Copy King Members, Only two more days until our project is due. :) The scenarios are really interesting and true to classroom experiences! Good job! There are a few housekeeping things and a few scenarios that need the answers.

1. Scenario 2: The link for the "click here" sends me to moodle and what if the students are not part of moodle? Students need to be able to get to the link. If we can't get a link for students then we might have to have a different scenario. Is there an answer for this scenario? We will need to assign someone to answer it I guess. :) 2. Scenario 3: This is similar to situations in my classroom. There is no answer or any choices for this scenario. We need someone to add to it. 3. Scenario 4: Cool situation!!! There is no answer and the choices are not complete. We need someone to add to it. Thanks!! I'm working on that as I write here - I've been having great discussions with my librarian re:Fair Use. We're still debating on whether or not the project itself is in violation because the kids are reading the WHOLE books in the iMovies. I think it IS a violation - because it's not just a small part of the book. Any ideas???? 4. Scenarios 1 & 5 look all done! :)

Okay Team, I've taken Debbie's suggestion that students cannot access Moodle and rewritten scenario 2. Feel free to edit. And you know, now I'm not sure what the answer is. Any ideas? Feel free to delete the whole thing. I added a bit to the answer in scenario five. Thanks, Dale

Is there anything else you all think we need to do, change, add, etc.? I added two video links to the Links for Educators. Check them out, they are really interesting!!!!!! Thanks, Debbie

Hello, Mon. 10/25 Great job with the changes and add-ons to the scenarios page! I like the choices and the description of the answers.

Sorry about the video. I had watched it and thought it would be a nice way to "show" an example. I was hoping there was a link that wasn't on moodle. The scenario you came up with Dale as an alternative works well too!!! I liked how you described the clip. Someone could really picture what the PSA was like. I feel like the squirrel often myself!!!!

Kate, I would agree with you. Since, in the scenario, the students are reading the whole book it is a violation. In a book I've been looking at called //Copyright Catechism by Carol Simpson,// she gives a similar situation where a librarian scanned entire pages of the whole book onto a PowerPoint so she could show it while she read. This is what the book says, "There are very few "fair uses" that would allow making a copy of an entire work. Per the multimedia guidelines, she can copy five images from a book, but I doubt that would cover a picture book. Showing a book during storytime is a protected use. No worries there. It is the copying and saving that is the problem." In addition, since they were giving the iMovies to a daycare it would be infringing on the ability of the authors to get paid for their work since there are probably books on CD or videos in production to buy. Excellent scenario!!!! And thanks for the links you added. Those should come in handy soon.

Hannah, I like what you did to scenario 3. That is a very real example that I come across in class. Good choices and answer as well!!


 * //I think our project is pretty much all done except for the answer to scenario 2, the PSA video. I think that it is within fair use as long as it is not shown beyond the classroom? I don't think you can show it school wide or on the school's web site??? I can search some more.//**

So what do you all think? I think we did a very good job, especially since this whole process is new to many of us. I am really not used to collaborating this way. Now that we are getting into the swing of things the project is done. :) Isn't that the way. I still prefer a more in person collaboration. Maybe this would work really well as a 50/50 kind of thing. Work in person 50% (or at least some %) and then do the "work" on the Wiki. ????

I'll check in tomorrow. Must go to bed. Good night Copy Kings!

Hello to all,

Sorry for the weekend absence. My sister had to very inconveniently get married. Everyone here did a fantastic job, if I may say so myself. I want to thank you Hannah for help with my scenario. I did some further research through both of the librarians in our district and you were one hundred percent correct. The use of a video for educational purposes that is legally copyrighted is absolutely allowed in its entirety. I was following the four factors, but it seems because it was evaluated and used for teaching that I could even download it off of Netflix. I am copying and pasting an email here that our librarian sent to me. Just so you guys can see it.

Also, I agree with the 50/50 suggestion. It feels so removed that we could never get together. Maybe Skype might have been a good thing if we felt we could have coordinated that. I certainly don't recommend this for 8th graders.

Anyway, here's the email I thought you guys should see:

Delia/Nancy, Below are two sites I came across that do give specifics as to "how much". This site has a great chart with specifics of fair use for different types of media: []. It's in the PDF column under copyright guidelines for teachers. The chart is excellent and should be very helpful in making decisions about fair use. As for showing the video, the rule of thumb is that if it is used in the course of face to face instruction it is permissible to show the entire film. It doesn't matter whether you obtained it from Netflix, a local video store or through the library. As long as it is a legal copy (not bootlegged) there is no problem. Public performance does not kick in unless you were showing a movie as a class reward, for indoor recess or as a fundraiser where you charge admission. We do have a public performance license here and in the elem schools to cover us.

[] is another site that appears to be helpful as well.

Just an FYI again. Nancy

Guys, couldn't fix the bold on my answer. I think that's it, and I am leaving p/t conferences and will not have email access in morning. If any of you could take a look and edit, that would be great! Thanks again. Dale

Hey Nancy and fellow Kings, (Tue Oct 26) Good info you added here. I agree about avoiding this with 8th graders (would have a difficult time facilitating it with seniors)! I have never used Skype before and I think there is a lot that can be done with it. Nancy, I hope your sister's wedding was nice! It is totally understandable that you weren't writing about copyright while trying to enjoy that event! I hope the weather was nicer on the west coast then it was here over the last few days.

I will try to look over that last scenario that needs an answer later tonight and we can put together an answer. I have to admit that I will be glad when this particular project is done. :) Debbie

Hello Dale, That bold thing gave me problems too. It ended up being a font choice. There is Ariel "regular" and Ariel black . What a pain sometimes with these types of programs. I always know there is a button I'm not pushing or a tab I'm not scrolling over. Good edit and info you added. I hope your conferences went well. We do ours in a couple of weeks. Do you have a lot of parents/kids show up? Do you set up appointments or just do an open house type night? Debbie

Tuesday night Hi everybody, I agree that the scenarios look great. Dale, I am pretty sure that you have the right answer to your scenario now (if you're the one who's been working on #2?). I didn't want to become little miss Copyright Clarity, but Renee Hobbs says that those "Fair Use Guidelines" that your original correct answer linked to are [|not actually law]. (pg. 27 when you open it--if it doesn't open to that page automatically.)

I also agree that wiki projects completed with people spread out all over the state of Maine are pretty hard! A social studies teacher at my school uses a class Wiki page and asks students to write on it a certain amount of times each quarter. I think I'm going to ask him how he organizes it, because I don't understand how he can follow who does what.

I'd like to thank you all for being so organized. Kate, I think that moving our conversation over to the wiki page was a great idea because this is now actually kind of an interesting documentation of the process of this project. And I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it helped me feel more comfortable with using wikis.

Well, isn't it nice to be done! And it's not even 8 o'clock yet! Off to grade... Hannah